Regarding the coronavirus survey, policies need to have no exceptions or they are useless.
… 8 9 10 12
… 8 9 10 12
Posted by garhkal malfakter
#276

joeyskywalker wrote:
One thing that I really want to stress when it comes to an in person event, there needs to be absolutely positively NO EXCEPTIONS to policies related to being vaccinated and wearing a mask.
I don't care if your uncle told you that 5G microchip vaccines cause cancer, I don't care if you think demons will fly out your butthole if you wear a mask, I'm not interested in your degree in constitutional law from Facebook university. Either the policy is 100% applied without exception, or it is useless.
So what happens to folk, who CAN'T get the vaccine (cause of autoimmune disorders), should they just be banned from going to any convention?
xanathon wrote:
I don't claim to be a COVID expert, but isn't the whole point of getting vaccinated to be able to reach a point where people don't have to wear masks?  By August enough people should be vaccinated so that real life, which includes not wearing masks, is feasible. 

It's supposed to be.  BUT even with the vaccine, many places still are under mask mandates..
malfakter wrote:
 Some people can't wear their masks for long periods of time and likely would get upset at being asked/told to put their mask back on or their kicked out.

One of the guys i used to game with (currently in lockdown, so am not gaming), can't wear a mask for more than 1 hr at a time, cause of his medical issues.  SO i agree.  How would mask wearing enforcement occur for folks like that.  OR would it just be "advised that folks who fit that description, just NOT come"???
squirecam wrote:
I just think Gencon needs applause for thinking about this NOW and getting policies in place long before the event. People will be mad if they only find out in July what the show policies actually are.
And yes you cant make everyone happy. But I think they are at least trying. People at least have a direct Avenue for feedback.

I give major Cudos to Gencon for Sending that poll out..  Some conventions i go to, have YET to even do anything close to that.
chaoticneutral262 wrote:
5,000 people in the will call line, 6 feet apart from each other = half way to the airport.

Perhaps they can solve that issue, by mailing everyones stuff out this year..  SO only those who pick up gm badges/buy generics are in lines..?
kar8a wrote:
If Disney can social distance tourists (and if there's ever a group that's in the "I care only about myself" category, it would be the Disney tourist), Gencon can social distance in a Convention Center and sports stadium:).

To me, its a big difference between going to a sports game/disney, where you are NOT usually trying to talk to 5-6 people, and a CON where MOST OF your time at the table, IS TALKING, and havinv to do it 6+ feet away.  We've always seen issues with folks NOT being able to hear one another/the DM on their table, cause of noise around.  NOW imagine trying to converse/read a script, to someone, 6+ feet away AND WHILE BEING MASKED?    I know folks, who even if they were 2 feet away, couldn't hear me, talking while masked.. 
mikeboozer wrote:
However there are things we will not have control over and will be mandated by whatever policies are put forth by the health department and or Governors office. If for example you must be masked to attend then you must, end of discussion.

Which is to be expected...
kevinrg wrote:
Pretty sure that if there is a mask mandate there will be plenty of people doing their best  Donald Sutherland's "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" finger point scream imitation if they see someone without a mask. 

I've seen videos of folks, even JUMPING on folks not masked in some stores.  BUT not yet seen anyone, even get OUTRAGED/shouting, let alone going that far, in person..  Knock on wood...
a dark rider on a pale ... unicorn? wrote:
That's the situation I'm in with attending from the UK;

As someone who has done TWO of the Gencon UK's (one where it was at that laughlenn college, one where it was in downtown london)..  Have you heard if that's going on this year?? OR will it be virtual too?
chelledg wrote:
Thoughts about doing the exhibit hall as a (free) timed ticketed event, similar to what they are doing at zoos these days? Could help with congestion. Yes, many negatives if you are trying to get the new hot product or find yourself with a random 30 minutes but no ticket (and I'm sure tons more that I didn't mention). But if that's the difference between having the con or not, it could possibly work...

How would that work for folks like me, who generally only visit it, during down time, cause one of the GM slots we set for ourselves, didn't run (cause of lack of players)?  How would we get those 'tickets'??

This is turning out to be long.. So i will split it up..  Continued next post!

Posted by garhkal technoir
#277

technoir wrote:
swearbear wrote:
All I ask is that Gencon just sticks to the guidelines set forth by the state, and nothing more. If masks are not mandated by that point, don't make them mandated. Please don't go above and beyond what is required by the law and/or CDC.  People can go above and beyond themselves should they choose to.  
My buddies and I already have our trip booked for Gencon, so fingers crossed it happens.
Why only the state guidelines? What if the city guidelines are different?! 
I mean... Im sure rural parts of the state will be less dense than downtown Indy... so you may need more restrictions there. 

The way i've always understood things like that, is a city can be STRICTER than the state. And the state can be stricter than the fed (like it is in the military).  BUT they can't be LESS stringent... 
squirecam wrote:Obviously a grocery store can require a mask due to public health. But there is difference in a place open to the public, which a grocery store is, and gencon, which is not open to the public and requires a badge license to enter.

From all the stores around where i am at, since the STATE mandates masks, so do the stores (with big signs up saying "BY State mandate".. 
father bloodlust wrote:Personally, I don't have an iPhone, or any smartphone. I doubt I'm the only one (though I'm probably in a minority).

Seeing the # of families where even the 3 yr old in the buggy, has a phone now days, i am shocked to hear folk who don't have one..
kar8a wrote:
I agree on Gencon needing to make a call by Easter.  If we're doing this onsite in August, or even online that month, folks will need time to prepare and make plans.  Certainty should be had one way or another by that holiday, with everything then having smaller windows to make happen:).
I mean, my spouse is playtesting his completely original RPG runs this month, but he's an optimist:).  I doubt others will be as ready to go once a call is made if it goes too late.
 

But with rules/cdc guidelines etc, changing week by week, i can't see HOW they could make that call by apr...
elvinlord wrote:
Depending on how things work out there no guarantee running a con would actually turn a profit for gencon.   I am sure they are doing that very unpleasant math.  It's pretty safe to say this year in person is going to be a very different beast then most.  Maybe they can scale costs down to match reduced attendance both by the public and vendors, maybe they cant and it becomes a unpleasant game of which option loses us the least money.     
The longer it takes to get a firm commitment, the more vendors and gms you will likely lose.  Most companies aren't going to be willing to tie up resources on maybe.  The longer it takes for a firm commitment, the more general attendees you lose due to vacation time and money being allotted elsewhere.  No doubt there is a hardcore group who would attend if it was announced one day prior with airborne Ebola running rampant in indy.  If the hardcores are enough who knows, only Gencon knows.

Well said Elvenlord.   One of my long time friends, who died 3 years back (auto accident) worked WITH charcon for a while, helping them out administratively, and they had to re-calculate each year, what their "min # of attendees to break even was"..  I would HATE to see the accounting office for Gencon, trying to figure out that for this year..
AND cudos to those workers, who ARE lumped with that unenviable task!

And yay..  now done with this long (and somewhat heated thread).. 

Posted by fethbone garhkal
#278

garhkal wrote:
technoir wrote:
swearbear wrote:
All I ask is that Gencon just sticks to the guidelines set forth by the state, and nothing more. If masks are not mandated by that point, don't make them mandated. Please don't go above and beyond what is required by the law and/or CDC.  People can go above and beyond themselves should they choose to.  
My buddies and I already have our trip booked for Gencon, so fingers crossed it happens.
Why only the state guidelines? What if the city guidelines are different?! 
I mean... Im sure rural parts of the state will be less dense than downtown Indy... so you may need more restrictions there. 

The way i've always understood things like that, is a city can be STRICTER than the state. And the state can be stricter than the fed (like it is in the military).  BUT they can't be LESS stringent... 
Correct. Gov. Holcomb announced today that he plans to end the statewide mask mandate April 6. However, counties, cities, and individual businesses can still choose to have stricter rules in place. I predict the city of Indianapolis, if not the entirety of Marion County will have their own mandates for awhile.

Of course, Miami technically still has a mask mandate and see how that has worked out for them once spring break started.

Posted by garhkal fethbone
#279

fethbone wrote:Of course, Miami technically still has a mask mandate and see how that has worked out for them once spring break started.

Well, that's college kids for ya.

Posted by drich02s
#280

By September, everyone who wants the vaccine should already have had the opportunity to get it. So if you have been vaccinated, there is no reason for either the mask or social distancing. If after being vaccinated you still have health concerns, you should probably stay home. Occupancy is going to be limited, anyway.

Posted by traveller drich02s
#281

drich02s wrote:
By September, everyone who wants the vaccine should already have had the opportunity to get it. So if you have been vaccinated, there is no reason for either the mask or social distancing. If after being vaccinated you still have health concerns, you should probably stay home. Occupancy is going to be limited, anyway.
The Vaccine is not 100% and since not everyone is getting the vaccine (some because they are ignant) you should still be wearing a mask and keeping distance because it only takes one person...

 

Posted by geezer
#282

The American Society of Civil Engineers hosts a similar sized event at their annual national convention. This year it was scheduled for October, a month after Gen Con.  They just announced it will be all virtual this year.  

Posted by monkeyknifefight traveller
#283

traveller wrote:
drich02s wrote:
By September, everyone who wants the vaccine should already have had the opportunity to get it. So if you have been vaccinated, there is no reason for either the mask or social distancing. If after being vaccinated you still have health concerns, you should probably stay home. Occupancy is going to be limited, anyway.
The Vaccine is not 100% and since not everyone is getting the vaccine (some because they are ignant) you should still be wearing a mask and keeping distance because it only takes one person... 
Only .007% of vaccinated people have breakthrough infections. That’s nearly perfect. 

Posted by audioslave
#284

I know it's not a perfect comparison, but the Indy 500 announced an attendance of 135,000 people for their event in May. I assume that we'll get some kind of update after the effects (if any) are found from that event.

Posted by forar
#285

According to the NPR site I've been watching for the last few months, Indiana is in the bottom third or so of states (by percentage of population) for both having 1 shot (of the 2 dose vaccines) and having fully vaccinated populations, and even then those numbers are in the 1/4 to 1/3 range respectively.

Note that this is purely something I keep tabs on out of curiosity and concern for the.. ahem, situation occurring with my neighbours to the south of these frozen wastes to the north.

And that's based on 3-4 months of vaccines rolling out.

I genuinely hope that in another 4-5 months of shots going into arms and people being convinced that it's desirable to be among the vaccinated, that we'll see something more closely resembling the old normal, even if it entails a little 'medical security theater' to alleviate concerns all the same. That NPR tracker even has an estimate of 85% of the US being fully vaccinated in late August (it fluctuates a bit, but has been in that vicinity for a while, ebbing and flowing based on day to day rates and weekly averages). That target was early 2022 not too long ago.

There will be skeptics and jerks and people who just won't get with the program. There's the possibility for the virus or vaccine supply issues or something else entirely throwing a curve ball at us collectively, but I remain hopeful for now. We (north america collectively) aren't through the tunnel yet, and some places (like Canada and Mexico) are still waiting on sufficient supplies to put a dent in the disparity (I respect that this is a selfish view of the situation and that there are many countries in the world with far lower access), but as the US starts peaking on those who want the shots getting them, hope that the current doses being sent over will continue with further efforts to help stamp this crap out.

But, circling back to the situation at hand, I don't envy the Gencon team having to make decisions 5 months out on a world that is changing day to day and week to week, even if the last few weeks and months have been a marked improvement over the year prior.

Posted by squirecam audioslave
#286

audioslave wrote:
I know it's not a perfect comparison, but the Indy 500 announced an attendance of 135,000 people for their event in May. I assume that we'll get some kind of update after the effects (if any) are found from that event.
If they are allowed to do that its because its outdoors. Gencon wont have the same attendance luxury.

Posted by lore seeker
#287

An outdoor setting doesn't seem like it would help much with 135,000 people all crammed into the stands.

Posted by squirecam
#288

I know that sounds like alot but that is still only 40% capacity. So they wont be crammed in anywhere.

Posted by lore seeker
#289

Really? Only 40%? Holy crap.

Posted by crusader77
#290

Yeah Indianapolis speedway is like a city within a city....150k people is nothing

Posted by drich02s traveller
#291

traveller wrote:
drich02s wrote:
By September, everyone who wants the vaccine should already have had the opportunity to get it. So if you have been vaccinated, there is no reason for either the mask or social distancing. If after being vaccinated you still have health concerns, you should probably stay home. Occupancy is going to be limited, anyway.
The Vaccine is not 100% and since not everyone is getting the vaccine (some because they are ignant) you should still be wearing a mask and keeping distance because it only takes one person... 
In that case, you should probably stay home from GenCon this year, so that you’re not risking infection. After all, there’s always that chance you might get infected. One of my friends will gladly take your place. And it will be one less person for us to to compete with for parking and accommodations. 

Posted by cmegus
#292

^^

Blunt... but very accurate.

Posted by garhkal lore seeker
#293

father bloodlust wrote:
Really? Only 40%? Holy crap.
From what i've heard of the # of folks that can be in that speedway at normal capacity, 40% is STILL a lot of folk.

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… 8 9 10 12
… 8 9 10 12