Health and Safety Info 2023
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Posted by kevinrg

I always like to envision Mike coming in like that guy in Robocop 2.  "Behave Yourselves!"

Posted by tpir

In 2021 and 2022 masks and vaccines were the law of the Gencon land.  Everyone knew this, exhibitors, attendees, and EOs alike, and proceeded accordingly.  Some chose to attend for this very reason and some did not attend for this reason.  In 2023 the law of the Gencon land is that masks and vaccines are not required and I don't see why we all shouldn't just do the same thing we did in previous years....make a decision based on our personal comfort levels and the rules that are in place.

Trying to backdoor rules and requirements seems a bit disingenuous.  I would encourage Gencon to stand by their policy statement and leave it at that.  If an EO does not feel comfortable with having unmasked, unvaccinated people play in their event, perhaps they should not run that event this year.

 

Posted by watchdog

I’m not sure I understand how quoting Gen Con’s policy statement in an event description is in conflict with Gen Con standing by that policy statement. 

 

Posted by tpir watchdog

That is not what I said, at all. 

Posted by eldrad12000 tpir

danmcneill wrote:
In 2021 and 2022 masks and vaccines were the law of the Gencon land.  Everyone knew this, exhibitors, attendees, and EOs alike, and proceeded accordingly.  Some chose to attend for this very reason and some did not attend for this reason.  In 2023 the law of the Gencon land is that masks and vaccines are not required and I don't see why we all shouldn't just do the same thing we did in previous years....make a decision based on our personal comfort levels and the rules that are in place.
Trying to backdoor rules and requirements seems a bit disingenuous.  I would encourage Gencon to stand by their policy statement and leave it at that.  If an EO does not feel comfortable with having unmasked, unvaccinated people play in their event, perhaps they should not run that event this year.
 
I agree with this. Just follow the rules, they have changed from previous years but as of this moment, they are what they are. So everyone, attendees, vendors, and EOs needs to make the choice on what they want to do with the rules being what they are.

Posted by grognard262 watchdog

watchdog wrote:
I’m not sure I understand how quoting Gen Con’s policy statement in an event description is in conflict with Gen Con standing by that policy statement. 
 

Some people want to "request" masks, which is different from "recommend" masks.  It is a way to exert social pressure on people to wear masks above and beyond the recommendation.  Basically, they are signaling that you are not welcome at their table unless you are wearing one.

Posted by kevinrg watchdog

watchdog wrote:
I’m not sure I understand how quoting Gen Con’s policy statement in an event description is in conflict with Gen Con standing by that policy statement.  

Nothing wrong with it however, let's not pretend it is just innocently restating Gencon's policy.  We all know what the 'request' is, it's desire to push people away that won't adhere to the EO's desired policy which differs from Gencon's policy.   

Given there are people that believe that anyone that doesn't wear a mask upon request as problematic when those people are following Gencon's policy is in itself, a problem.  

Gencon would not allow EO's to go against policy last year (If we all voted to not wear masks, can we not wear masks?  Was not allowed).   Barring a shift in their policy, I would not expect Gencon would allow EO's to subtly pressure people to wear a mask.

Posted by swaygodeus

Happy about the current policies, and looking forward to attending this year with my group!!

Posted by gib_rebeg tpir

danmcneill wrote:
In 2021 and 2022 masks and vaccines were the law of the Gencon land.  Everyone knew this, exhibitors, attendees, and EOs alike, and proceeded accordingly.  Some chose to attend for this very reason and some did not attend for this reason.  In 2023 the law of the Gencon land is that masks and vaccines are not required and I don't see why we all shouldn't just do the same thing we did in previous years....make a decision based on our personal comfort levels and the rules that are in place.
Trying to backdoor rules and requirements seems a bit disingenuous.  I would encourage Gencon to stand by their policy statement and leave it at that.  If an EO does not feel comfortable with having unmasked, unvaccinated people play in their event, perhaps they should not run that event this year.
 
2021 was Mask Only. There were EO who tried instituting their own Vax requirement, you can visit Fans of Gencon page on FB and chat with a couple who tried this and are now banned from hosting events.

2022 was both Mask and Vax.

Far as ".make a decision based on our personal comfort levels" And who's personal comfort level do we use. There are a lot who don't want the vax requirement any longer. To that, every other convention that has dropped their vax & mask requirements have seen attendance go back to 2019 levels and in some cases pass those numbers. With vax and Mask, ,GC is far from 70k people.

Posted by lanogironu kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:
watchdog wrote:
I’m not sure I understand how quoting Gen Con’s policy statement in an event description is in conflict with Gen Con standing by that policy statement.  

Nothing wrong with it however, let's not pretend it is just innocently restating Gencon's policy.  We all know what the 'request' is, it's desire to push people away that won't adhere to the EO's desired policy which differs from Gencon's policy.   Given there are people that believe that anyone that doesn't wear a mask upon request as problematic when those people are following Gencon's policy is in itself, a problem.  
Gencon would not allow EO's to go against policy last year (If we all voted to not wear masks, can we not wear masks?  Was not allowed).   Barring a shift in their policy, I would not expect Gencon would allow EO's to subtly pressure people to wear a mask.

At this point, I REALLY hope GenCon allows the option to "Request" mask for extra performer/EO/GM precaution just to spite the unempathetic crowed. GenCon won't, and that's fine (never expected it) but it's great to see people so against something that won't affect them at all.

Like is "pushing people" away really the most likely scenario you can possibly think of for someone there to want people within 5 feet of them for hours to have a mask? No other reason someone who wants to attend GenCon could possibly prefer masks still?

It's sad how many people vehemently hate an idea that essentially falls under "will almost definitely not hurt anyone, as backed by a large sample poll already, and will make a lot of EOs and GMs, without which GenCon can't exist, happier and more comfortable." You can look at this thread and easily pick out the people who also griped about pronoun options for badges.

Posted by kevinrg lanogironu

At this point, I REALLY hope GenCon allows the option to "Request" mask for extra performer/EO/GM precaution just to spite the unempathetic crowed. GenCon won't, and that's fine (never expected it) but it's great to see people so against something that won't affect them at all.

For the record, on a personal level, I don't care if people are allowed to put 'requested' in the description.  As I've stated before, I see requested, I'm just staying away from the event.    I was merely stating that if GC is allowing that, they might as well go with allowing 'required', because that is the end desire of the EO.  In that regards, yes, the EO is trying push people away that don't want to mask up due to the implied usage of the word 'requested' (I think that poll had it at around 12% that would find a different event)

Someone made the comment 'As a pro mask person….it doesn’t seem fair to call the people who want to play but won’t mask “grumpy” in this context. They are following the show policies. '   and Mike agreed with that.

Someone that is following GC's policies shouldn't be bludgeoned over the head, they didn't set the policy.   As an EO this year, with current policies, you'll have to make the decision if you are willing to do events with potentially some people unmasked at the table because there is nothing on the books currently that will ensure that.

 

Posted by darksandpiper kevinrg

kevinrg wrote:Someone that is following GC's policies shouldn't be bludgeoned over the head, they didn't set the policy.   As an EO this year, with current policies, you'll have to make the decision if you are willing to do events with potentially some people unmasked at the table because there is nothing on the books currently that will ensure that.
 

Correct and any pushing, snide, or passive aggressive remarks from the pro mask EO after a polite, "no thanks I will not be masking" needs to be covered by the anti-harassment policies. 

 

Posted by squirecam darksandpiper

darksandpiper wrote:
kevinrg wrote:Someone that is following GC's policies shouldn't be bludgeoned over the head, they didn't set the policy.   As an EO this year, with current policies, you'll have to make the decision if you are willing to do events with potentially some people unmasked at the table because there is nothing on the books currently that will ensure that.
Correct and any pushing, snide, or passive aggressive remarks from the pro mask EO after a polite, "no thanks I will not be masking" needs to be covered by the anti-harassment policies. 
 
While snide remarks are possible my bigger concern would be the GM suddenly canceling the event, which hurts everyone.

I think any GM should know if they are comfortable running a game without their players being masked. If they dont believe their own mask is sufficient then it would be best if they not volunteer this year. And again i say this as one both pro vax and masks.

Posted by tpir gib_rebeg

gib_rebeg wrote:
danmcneill wrote:
In 2021 and 2022 masks and vaccines were the law of the Gencon land.  Everyone knew this, exhibitors, attendees, and EOs alike, and proceeded accordingly.  Some chose to attend for this very reason and some did not attend for this reason.  In 2023 the law of the Gencon land is that masks and vaccines are not required and I don't see why we all shouldn't just do the same thing we did in previous years....make a decision based on our personal comfort levels and the rules that are in place.
Trying to backdoor rules and requirements seems a bit disingenuous.  I would encourage Gencon to stand by their policy statement and leave it at that.  If an EO does not feel comfortable with having unmasked, unvaccinated people play in their event, perhaps they should not run that event this year.
2021 was Mask Only. There were EO who tried instituting their own Vax requirement, you can visit Fans of Gencon page on FB and chat with a couple who tried this and are now banned from hosting events.2022 was both Mask and Vax.
Far as ".make a decision based on our personal comfort levels" And who's personal comfort level do we use. There are a lot who don't want the vax requirement any longer. To that, every other convention that has dropped their vax & mask requirements have seen attendance go back to 2019 levels and in some cases pass those numbers. With vax and Mask, ,GC is far from 70k people.
Thank you for clarifying that first point.  I was speaking in broad strokes and you are correct in pointing out the differences between 2021 and 2022.

To answer your question (and perhaps to clarify the point I was trying to make), my comment was not directed at how Gencon chooses to formulate their policy, only how we as attendees react to it.  The policy is what it is and is clearly stated.  If one disagrees with it I think their best choice is to stay home (which by the way is what I chose to do in 2021 and 2022).  If one agrees with it, then most likely their best choice is to attend.  I don't think it's fair to ask for carve out exceptions or ways to circumvent the stated policy in either direction.  The policy is what it is, love it or hate it, and we can all decide how to proceed for ourselves.

All that said, I am thrilled beyond belief that Gencon has updated their policy this year.  I will be attending, staying longer than usual, spending more money than usual, and likely inviting some friends to join me as well.

Posted by tpir squirecam

While snide remarks are possible my bigger concern would be the GM suddenly canceling the event, which hurts everyone.I think any GM should know if they are comfortable running a game without their players being masked. If they dont believe their own mask is sufficient then it would be best if they not volunteer this year. And again i say this as one both pro vax and masks.
 
I find it very interesting that while we disagree on the latter point regarding masks and vax, we agree on the first point you made.  Perhaps there is hope after all.  :)

Posted by gib_rebeg squirecam

squirecam wrote:
darksandpiper wrote:
kevinrg wrote:Someone that is following GC's policies shouldn't be bludgeoned over the head, they didn't set the policy.   As an EO this year, with current policies, you'll have to make the decision if you are willing to do events with potentially some people unmasked at the table because there is nothing on the books currently that will ensure that.
Correct and any pushing, snide, or passive aggressive remarks from the pro mask EO after a polite, "no thanks I will not be masking" needs to be covered by the anti-harassment policies. 
While snide remarks are possible my bigger concern would be the GM suddenly canceling the event, which hurts everyone.I think any GM should know if they are comfortable running a game without their players being masked. If they dont believe their own mask is sufficient then it would be best if they not volunteer this year. And again i say this as one both pro vax and masks.
I can't speak for GC now. But in the past, unless the GM had a really good reason for canceling an event on short/no notice. They would find GC unwilling to grant them event space in the future and one's badge was questionable.

Posted by watchdog

I find it interesting that even though Gen Con’s official health statement strongly encourages attendees to mask and be vaccinated (in boldface, no less) none of the posters here have stated that they’re afraid Gen Con personnel will treat them less than respectfully if they decide not to mask. That fear is reserved solely for GMs and EOs who might use identical language in event descriptions. 

Posted by squirecam tpir

danmcneill wrote:
While snide remarks are possible my bigger concern would be the GM suddenly canceling the event, which hurts everyone.I think any GM should know if they are comfortable running a game without their players being masked. If they dont believe their own mask is sufficient then it would be best if they not volunteer this year. And again i say this as one both pro vax and masks.
 
I find it very interesting that while we disagree on the latter point regarding masks and vax, we agree on the first point you made.  Perhaps there is hope after all.  :)
Rebellions are built on hope!

But for me it's simply fairness and respect for the rules. Whatever those rules turn out to be. By getting the badge you agree to abide by them.

Posted by armored badger watchdog

watchdog wrote:
I find it interesting that even though Gen Con’s official health statement strongly encourages attendees to mask and be vaccinated (in boldface, no less) none of the posters here have stated that they’re afraid Gen Con personnel will treat them less than respectfully if they decide not to mask. That fear is reserved solely for GMs and EOs who might use identical language in event descriptions. 

Well, that would be because of the implied nature of a double statement. If a statement is made twice, it becomes less of a suggestion or encouragement and more of a command or requirement. The personnel at Gen Con will be looking out to see if policy is being upheld. Since it states that it is encouraged, not required, that means they aren't going to be checking to see if people have a vax card on them or if they are wearing a mask. That being said, they won't be paying attention to what EO listed "mask strongly encouraged" and which did not. This thought, while an entertaining idea for those EO's that have concerns, has all the marks of causing problems down the road. EO's and GM's will be the sole enforcers of a policy they restated because that is their desire. 

Think of it this way, the Code of Conduct says "Remember to eat, sleep and shower" but the staff at Gen Con don't go around making sniff tests of people.

Considering that the last two years has entailed the policy of, at minimal, mask wearing and that Gen Con has not made any allowances for that policy to be usurped by EO's or GM's, it feels more like a double-standard. 

Posted by lehane watchdog

watchdog wrote:
I find it interesting that even though Gen Con’s official health statement strongly encourages attendees to mask and be vaccinated (in boldface, no less) none of the posters here have stated that they’re afraid Gen Con personnel will treat them less than respectfully if they decide not to mask. That fear is reserved solely for GMs and EOs who might use identical language in event descriptions. 

I put that down to Gencon earning people's trust through years of good examples. 

The average GM doesn't possess that track record across all (or likely even most) attendees. 

I would say the average gamer has suffered from a vindictive GM at some point, so it isn't really unreasonable to be concerned about it. 

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