Health and Safety Info 2023
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Posted by lanogironu watchdog
#76

watchdog wrote:
The Fans of Gen Con Facebook page currently has a poll on this subject. The question was:
If an event had in its info "We ask that you please mask while attending this event for the safety of our immunocompromised staff/performer(s)" 
What would you do?
600 people responded. Current totals are:
Yes, I would make sure to be masked - 474 (79%)
Yes, but it would help if the event provided masks because I won’t have one - 45 (7.5%)
No, I would not attend if asked - 70 (11.67%)
No, I would attend but probably not mask - 11 (1.8%)
600 is a really good sample size for this convention.  I think the concerns of mass chaos, players being ostracized, and GMs suddenly cancelling events is overblown. 
 

That was a public poll and limited to facebook users, so there's some bias to it. 
But based on that sample the only real issue is with that 1.8% group, and even then it's only if the GM or other players take offense in some form, which is likely less than half the time. So really maybe 1% of the population would be problematic if EOs were allowed to request masking. Honestly think GenCon has more to gain (via goodwill to EOs and more GMs probably) from making it an option and filterable in event catalog than lose (via the 1% grumpy attendees) but we'll see.

Posted by squirecam lanogironu
#77

lanigironu wrote:
watchdog wrote:
The Fans of Gen Con Facebook page currently has a poll on this subject. The question was:
If an event had in its info "We ask that you please mask while attending this event for the safety of our immunocompromised staff/performer(s)" 
What would you do?
600 people responded. Current totals are:
Yes, I would make sure to be masked - 474 (79%)
Yes, but it would help if the event provided masks because I won’t have one - 45 (7.5%)
No, I would not attend if asked - 70 (11.67%)
No, I would attend but probably not mask - 11 (1.8%)
600 is a really good sample size for this convention.  I think the concerns of mass chaos, players being ostracized, and GMs suddenly cancelling events is overblown. 

That was a public poll and limited to facebook users, so there's some bias to it. 
But based on that sample the only real issue is with that 1.8% group, and even then it's only if the GM or other players take offense in some form, which is likely less than half the time. So really maybe 1% of the population would be problematic if EOs were allowed to request masking. Honestly think GenCon has more to gain (via goodwill to EOs and more GMs probably) from making it an option and filterable in event catalog than lose (via the 1% grumpy attendees) but we'll see.
As a pro mask person….it doesn’t seem fair to call the people who want to play but won’t mask “grumpy” in this context. They are following the show policies.

 

Posted by quarex
#78

Yeah, 1.8% is a pretty solid percentage to use if anyone ever says "how many people at Gen-Con are rules lawyer jerks you regret ever interacting with?"

I would be surprised if Gen-Con allows any extra precautions to be requested in an event posting, since it would be weird to let people change convention rules or if they cannot change rules then the addendum serves no purpose.  "All players must bring pizza" "Players requested to possess encyclopedic knowledge of Monty Python quotes" 

Posted by watchdog
#79

Since you mentioned pizza, let’s go with a food analogy. Players are currently allowed to bring their choice of snacks to the table in most areas of the convention. If a GM has a nut allergy, would it serve no purpose to ask players to refrain from bringing those snacks to the table because convention rules can’t be changed? 

Posted by mikeboozer squirecam
#80

squirecam wrote:
lanigironu wrote:
watchdog wrote:
The Fans of Gen Con Facebook page currently has a poll on this subject. The question was:
If an event had in its info "We ask that you please mask while attending this event for the safety of our immunocompromised staff/performer(s)" 
What would you do?
600 people responded. Current totals are:
Yes, I would make sure to be masked - 474 (79%)
Yes, but it would help if the event provided masks because I won’t have one - 45 (7.5%)
No, I would not attend if asked - 70 (11.67%)
No, I would attend but probably not mask - 11 (1.8%)
600 is a really good sample size for this convention.  I think the concerns of mass chaos, players being ostracized, and GMs suddenly cancelling events is overblown. 

That was a public poll and limited to facebook users, so there's some bias to it. 
But based on that sample the only real issue is with that 1.8% group, and even then it's only if the GM or other players take offense in some form, which is likely less than half the time. So really maybe 1% of the population would be problematic if EOs were allowed to request masking. Honestly think GenCon has more to gain (via goodwill to EOs and more GMs probably) from making it an option and filterable in event catalog than lose (via the 1% grumpy attendees) but we'll see.
As a pro mask person….it doesn’t seem fair to call the people who want to play but won’t mask “grumpy” in this context. They are following the show policies. 

Agreed, it is not fair.

Mike

Posted by mikeboozer
#81

Hello,

I know I told you that we would have something on this by the end of the week. We are still considering all the factors and the concerns of GM's(EO's) and attendees alike.

Will have something for you next week.

Mike
 

Posted by galvatron42
#82

What if, instead of including a request for masks in the event description which could possibly create all the various uncomfortable circumstances the GenCon staff is currently considering, the EO had someone offering masks to attendees at entry to the event? 

Posted by mikeboozer donaldbain
#83

donaldbain wrote:
What are the consequences of the EO cancelling the event at start time? 

So hard to say as you have provided no context here except that they are cancelling. I suggest you email [email protected] and add some clarity so they can answer your question!

Mike

Posted by kevinrg galvatron42
#84

galvatron42 wrote:
What if, instead of including a request for masks in the event description which could possibly create all the various uncomfortable circumstances the GenCon staff is currently considering, the EO had someone offering masks to attendees at entry to the event? 

That's even worse in my opinion as you are putting this on an attendee potentially at the last minute.   EO puts a box of masks on the table and points to it.   Not ideal.

If an EO wants masks at their event, then it should just be a 'masks required' in the description if Gencon wants to go that path.  (Requested is passive.  We know what the meaning is)   That way there is no ambiguity, no implied request, no societal 'pressure'.  The people that want masked events can specifically seek those out.  The people that want unmasked events can do the same.

Posted by donaldbain mikeboozer
#85

mikeboozer wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
What are the consequences of the EO cancelling the event at start time? 

So hard to say as you have provided no context here except that they are cancelling. I suggest you email [email protected] and add some clarity so they can answer your question!Mike
just in the context of the discussion:  the EO request masks for the event, one or more people refuse and they cancel the event because of it.

Posted by mikeboozer donaldbain
#86

donaldbain wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
What are the consequences of the EO cancelling the event at start time? 

So hard to say as you have provided no context here except that they are cancelling. I suggest you email [email protected] and add some clarity so they can answer your question!Mike
just in the context of the discussion:  the EO request masks for the event, one or more people refuse and they cancel the event because of it.

Again this is a query for the Events Team [email protected] 

In general I'll point you to the Event Host Policy as well which might have further illumination. https://files.gencon.com/genconeventhostpolicy.pdf

Page 17 I think.
 

Posted by lanogironu squirecam
#87

squirecam wrote:As a pro mask person….it doesn’t seem fair to call the people who want to play but won’t mask “grumpy” in this context. They are following the show policies. 

That's not what I said or meant. I said 1.8% would show up without a mask and half the time or more it would be total non issue; so the concern from GenCon really is the ~1% who didn't wear a requested mask and felt they were judged OR the few maskers that are mad someone didn't wear a mask hence saying "grumpy attendees." It wasn't implying people who didn't want to mask are grumpy, but the ones that GenCon would have to worry about (along with masked) are the de facto grumpy ones who make an issue to staff. 

Posted by lanogironu donaldbain
#88

donaldbain wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
What are the consequences of the EO cancelling the event at start time? 

So hard to say as you have provided no context here except that they are cancelling. I suggest you email [email protected] and add some clarity so they can answer your question!Mike
just in the context of the discussion:  the EO request masks for the event, one or more people refuse and they cancel the event because of it.

That shouldn't be allowed IMO. I think the bigger concern from GenCon point of view is if they don't allow some kind of request checkbox, that some portion of GMs or Event people cancel in advance.

Posted by squirecam lanogironu
#89

lanigironu wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
mikeboozer wrote:
donaldbain wrote:
What are the consequences of the EO cancelling the event at start time? 

So hard to say as you have provided no context here except that they are cancelling. I suggest you email [email protected] and add some clarity so they can answer your question!Mike
just in the context of the discussion:  the EO request masks for the event, one or more people refuse and they cancel the event because of it.

That shouldn't be allowed IMO. I think the bigger concern from GenCon point of view is if they don't allow some kind of request checkbox, that some portion of GMs or Event people cancel in advance.
Then isn’t it better to be open now? Masks are not required so any GM needs to be comfortable with that policy. If that causes too few events because of a lack of GM’s then it can be addressed next year. 

It is far worse to have masks requested/masks not requested, have a GM show up demanding one or the other, and then cancel if it isn’t complied with. That’s why Gencon won’t leave stuff up to individuals and why the safest option is to simply follow the general show policy, whatever it is.

If Covid 23 the evil sequel causes extreme misery this summer Gencon always has reserved the right to changes based on medical necessity. If that isn’t enough for someone then they should probably pass on attending this year.

Posted by squirecam mikeboozer
#90

mikeboozer wrote:
Hello,
I know I told you that we would have something on this by the end of the week. We are still considering all the factors and the concerns of GM's(EO's) and attendees alike.
Will have something for you next week.
Mike
 
Thank you Mike. 

Posted by nedleeds
#91

Fantastic news. I plan on returning and spending my normal $5,000 gaming and housing budget. Hopefully those who aren't resilient to the communicable diseases we've living with for 100,000 years focus on their health if they can't make it. 

 

Posted by nedleeds squirecam
#92

squirecam wrote:
lanigironu wrote:
helenbb wrote:Agreed. If masks are requested, I will politely decline. If that makes me a jerk, then I'm sure that I won't be the only one.

That's not really what I was saying if I understand you correctly. I'm saying if you see an event with "masking requested" (hypothetical, I don't think that's gonna be allowed), and still sign up buying a ticket knowing full and well you won't wear a mask then you're very likely a jerk/narcissist. Politely declining to buy a ticket for that event is different and I'd have no issue with that. 
matthias9 wrote:If that's true, aren't you de facto requiring them?

Not really, but sure if you interpret it that way. I don't see why that would be a problem besides GenCon not wanting to deal with the whining. It seems like a group of people that "are all about choice" really aren't for Event Organizers having a choice on masking for their events they put together and run.
This was what Origins was going to do before the backlash, and it was going to be a nightmare. You really can’t have individual GM policies without having a lot of staff who will then be forced to mediate the dispute. What if the attendee simply won’t agree to mask. Are they prohibited from playing? What if the other gamers exclude or gang up on that person as “punishment” ? What if more people don’t want to mask but the one wanting masks is insistent upon it due to a medical concern?I’ve been pro mask. But it can’t be left to individuals. And frankly everyone knows the rules we expect to have. If I had a medical concern then I would simply decide not to attend rather than expecting everyone to make an exception for me. The same way I expected the no mask people last year to either not attend or mask up. Because that was the policy.
I just see a lot of problems if it’s left up to individual GM’s.
The same choice you made for 30 years prior to Covid, even in years when we had raging flu numbers. Personal health and knowing your risk tolerance has and will always be the barometer. Second, nobody is preventing you from showing up in ahazmat suit with a rebreather and 3 N95s underneath ... all of which will "protect" you more than having others having to haphazardly wear cloth masks. It's about controlling others, and it's never been about health. If it was about health Gencon would have a gym onsite, and treadmills and free booths full of dieticians to help the morbidly unhealthy gamer archtype they sell to. 

Posted by mikeboozer
#93

I get that some of you feel very passionate about this but let's take the snark down a level please.

Mike

Posted by donaldbain nedleeds
#94

[This post has been removed]

Posted by mikeboozer
#95

Let's keep it civil folks.

Doing my best to keep the thread open.

No more back and forth on who is right and who is wrong and the snark.

Mike

 

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